Touring
The Struggle Depot: An Interview with Kate and Sally
By
Devon Bowers
Below
is the transcript of a recent email interview I had with Katherine Heller and
Sally Tamarkin, hosts of the podcast TheStruggle Bus, where we discuss the creation of the podcast and mental
health.
1. What made you want
to create The Struggle Bus?
Sally: We started TSB kind of on a whim. Katharine
and I had recently met and become fast friends. A lot of our conversations in the
beginning of our friendship were about how we were doing with Life, mental
health, etc. So when Katharine, who already hosted a great podcast called Tell
The Bartender, suggest we start an advice show, it seemed like the perfect way
to hang out together and do what we do best—talk about mental health and share
our feelings and opinions!
Katharine: I was so excited when I met Sally and wanted an excuse to hang
out with her. We talked about doing a podcast together, monthly, just for fun.
At some point she used the term “Struggle Bus” and I’d never heard it, and
thought that it would be a good name for a podcast.
2. How do you go about
giving advice? Is it off the cuff or do you plan and research beforehand?
Sally: For me it’s kind of a mix of both. The way I
prep is: I read the questions we’re answering that week a few times. I make
some notes in my Notes app of things that the listener’s email made me think
about and I come up with a few points that I think I want to make. I also spend
some time trying to determine what, if anything, I am projecting onto the
questioner because one thing I’ve noticed is that it’s VERY easy to give advice
from a me-centric point of view and I have to make a conscious effort to not
put too much of myself and my experiences into the way I respond, because then
I think it just becomes Here’s What Sally Would Do In This Situation Or Has
Done In Similar Situations, which does not center the person who’s asking us
for advice at all. Once I have spent some time with the questions in my head
and making notes, I stop thinking about them because I know that once I hear
how Katharine responds, it will make me think about the email in a new way and
I’ll have new/different things to say. My objective is to be prepared but not
to be scripted because I think a lot of the best advice we give comes from
Katharine and I sort of collaborating as we respond.
Katharine: I read the emails ahead of time, and if
there’s anything I need to know, I do some research. For example, if I don’t
know an acronym for a medical condition, I’ll look that up. There have been
times when I wanted to ask a professional to be sure we handled something
sensitive in the right way. An example of this is when we got an email from a
sexual molestation survivor who had rape fantasies, but would never act on
harming a child. I know from personal experience that it was totally normal,
but since we’re NOT professionals, I wanted to be sure I had more information
before talking about it. Other than that, I don’t plan anything because based
on my improv background, I feel that honest, in the moment conversations are
the best and Sally makes that easy.
3. The fact that the
two of you seem to have fostered an atmosphere of genuine concern and caring
from the podcast to online and even real life spaces (ie Struggle Bus Live) is
quite interesting. Does this help you
to recharge on a personal level?
Sally: Trying to maintain an atmosphere of
caring and concern on the podcast, in our FB group, and in live shows has been
important to my mental health, especially recently. It’s helped me realize that
spaces that feel truly caring and open, where people can feel safe being
vulnerable, are pretty rare. To try to create and maintain a space like that,
particularly since the 2016 election has felt like pretty important work to me,
and that, in turn, is recharging. Before TSB I don’t think I was consciously
aware of how many spaces we occupy day in and day out that are about performing
OK-ness and hiding vulnerability. The community around TSB (whether it’s
Katharine, or people who write in, or buddies in the FB group, or guests and
audience at the live show) inspires people to think about vulnerability and
boundaries kind of simultaneously and it’s definitely a kind of feedback loop
because what Katharine and I put out there we get back tenfold from listeners,
social media followers, and FB group members. I really feel like we’re all
stewards of this dope ass community.
Katharine: This podcast has helped me in so many ways. For me, helping
people makes me feel good, and I legitimately feel compassion for every person
who writes in. I feel less “alone” with my mental health problems, and I like
knowing other listeners help each other as well. I’ll sometimes go on the FB
group when I’m feeling down because it’s a good reminder that it’s ok to be
sad/mad/scared. Plus, people post the best animal photos and gifs. The weeks
when I’ve been unable to record are very sad for me, because I love doing this
show. AND it makes me check in with myself about my own self care.
4. In what ways do you
care for your own mental health as you help others tackle their own problems?
Sally: I have learned that doing a segment every week called A Thing We
Did (For Self-Care) makes you hyper aware of that fact that if I don’t take
time for myself every week and pay close attention to my mental health, I won’t
have anything to say into the mic. So, I make sure to do all my regular stuff—I
go to therapy every week, I journal for about 2 minutes each night, I work out,
sometimes I meditate. Another thing I try to be very aware of during the
podcast recording and prep is what certain emails might be bringing up for me.
So many of our experiences are universal or at least relatable and there are
times that someone writes something in that really activates me; it pushes on a
bruise I have or reminds me of something shitty I’ve gone through, etc. In
those moments I try to think through what’s happening with me, breathe, and
think about how I can ask Katharine to support me through the part of the show
when we address that email. I might ask her to be the one to read the email or
allow me to be the one to read it. I might ask to stop recording so I can
breathe and think and organize my thoughts, etc. That is very specific to the
time we’re recording, but it’s a big part of my self-care.
Katharine: While I love therapy and recommend it to
everyone, there are some weeks when I just don’t want to go. So then I remember
that I need to practice what I preach, and that gives me motivation to keep
going. Also, I have learned I have limits and it’s ok to vocalize that. If an
email is upsetting to me, I’ll as that Sally read it. Ultimately, I know I have
to take care of myself first because if I can’t, there would be no show. So it’s
helped me maintain my mental health work. The segment A Thing We Did For Self
Care has been surprisingly important to me, and I’m grateful I have a
show/space where I’m consistently reminded that I have to do the personal work.
5. Do you think now is
the time for a podcast such as yours since mental health has become semi
prevalent in the media?
Sally: I couldn’t be more in favor of the fact that
mental health is more and more present in mainstream conversations. I think
it’s always the time for more openness about the fact that life is hard, being
a person is difficult, and relationships take a lot of work. I feel like I grew
up thinking that there was something majorly wrong with me or my experience of
the world, because I was always so worried and anxious and full of dread, even
as a kid. Yet what I was seeing and learning through pop culture and what
adults were modeling is that Life Is Just Fine. Growing up and realizing that
basically everyone (at least in my world/experience) is having or has had a rough
time to get through, survive, recover from, etc. has made me feel like a secret
of the universe has been revealed to me. In conclusion, yes, but also I feel
like it was always the time.
Katharine: Pre podcast/internet, one of the most popular
categories of books was self help, so I think since the history of time people
have sought out help to understand themselves and those surrounding them. I
feel podcasting allows that conversation to continue, and I’m so happy this
kind of content can be offered for free. It’s wonderful to see so many great
mental health podcasts, and that hopefully, the stigmas are fading. I never see
another mental health podcast as “competition”, I am filled with joy that so
many exist.
6. What apps or
programs would you recommend to working people who may not be able to afford
therapy?
Sally: I’m hesitant to recommend any apps because I
haven’t personally tried any. I’ve heard some great things and some mixed
things about some of the services out there. I think one great resource is the
crisis text, chat, and phone lines that various places have. For example, the National Suicide Prevention
Lifeline is available 24-7, as is The Trevor Project, which is a hotline for
LGBTQ people who are in crisis or feeling suicidal. The National Eating
Disorders Association has a similar service. These are obviously for acute
intervention in times of crisis, but the fact that they’re there and free and
can provide help in a crisis and direct you towards longterm resources is
great. The other thing I’d recommend is doing some research to see if there’s a
community clinic or university in your area offers free or very low-fee
therapy. I don’t know if people realize that although there is DEFINITELY not
enough affordable, accessible, culturally competent mental healthcare available
out there, there’s more stuff out there than just those $350/hour therapists
who don’t take insurance.
Katharine: I recommend looking into a school with a PHD
program for therapists because they need to accrue a certain number of hours
and offer low-fee sessions. Also group therapy, in person or online, is usually
available and inexpensive. It’s not the same as talk therapy, but it’s a good
option until you can make therapy happen. Online support groups during crisis
are helpful, for example RAINN has a chat room with a counselor 24-7.
7. How can people
support your work?
Sally: People can listen to TSB and tell their
friends about us! Also, write us a review on iTunes! Also write in to us—ask us
for advice, tell us what we should do more of, etc.
Katharine: Rate and review on iTunes, tell your friends,
encourage major publications to run a story about us, become a Bonus Member, or
just donate money to us!
